#1

I think the person on the other end of your exchange needs to visit Lakeview and see the program in action. I can’t believe ANYONE who witnesses it could walk away and not be completely convinced. The comment about not enough hands-on science experiences does not accurately describe the program as it is being implemented at Lakeview either. With the core curriculum requirements in place in Metro and the checklists that the teachers use, I don’t see how anyone could question that the kids are getting what they need academically. Teaching a child from any walk of life that he/she is responsible for his/her actions and that all choices have consequences, good or bad, is the selling factor of the program in my eyes. If you teach a child responsibility and keep them in a good academic setting, I can’t help but think all the rest will come! Of course, I am not an educated and experienced educator. Am I too naive? Also the big emphasis on literature is appealing to me. A love of reading can ONLY lead a child down the right path.

Bottom line, I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I had a hard time with his/hers!

Thanks for keeping me posted.

#2 From a Nashville Teacher (middle school)

Dave,

You’ll have to stop sending me stuff because I get no sleep surfing all your web sites (ha???).

Here, to me, is the sum of the matter: discipline.

to run a cluster of charter elementary schools in Houston, the test scores don’t begin to tell the whole story. The discipline (children walk the corridors quietly and in single file), the eager learning, the purposeful noise as the children respond to teachers’ questions in choral fashion.

Dave,

The unfortunate flip side is the special education problem. No matter how many times Board members say it (like Mr. Philips), the "administration" (who ever that is) does give the special education kids a "get out of jail free" (get out of trouble) card, regardless of whether the "trouble" is a manifestation of handicapping condition. How many times have I heard this year, "you can only suspend for 10 days - that’s the law"? Too many times. Teachers are FORCED to put up with disruptive special education students which then impact everyone else. I am not talking about "oh, Johnny can’t spell, kick him out." I am talking about, "Johnny cussed out Bobby again, but he is learning disabled so I can only tell him ‘no, no, don’t do that’."

Be aware that on April 14^th new special education stuff is going to be presented to the Board. I don’t know what is in it, but there is a fear among teachers that it will be more mainstreaming without additional resources for classroom teachers (more of the problem I previously discussed with you, Johnny can’t read my textbook but I am not given even a hint at where I can find one he can read).

Dave-

(Once again, shame on you! I have now spent 1.5 hours of sleep time reading this stuff... but then, you now are reading my replies, so I guess we are even).

Here are my views (from what I read, which was just the narrative of the journalist/assistant):

1) Discipline is important. I agree, stuff like with holding lunch until work is done is good. But, did you notice what happened. Some parent with a poorly behaved child whinned and complained about how holding lunch shouldn’t be a punishment, and the school caved. Not only did it cave, the kids still was doing bad. In fact, the same kid should have failed the previous year, but was passed by parental request.

2) Kids don’t fail, teachers do. I agree to an extent. It is my job to structure the learning so kids can be successful. But, what if, like in the narrative, the kids refuse to work in class and refuse to do homework. Who is it that failed? Do you see the extra work the school did, daily progress checks, tutoring, etc.? Maybe it should be kids don’t fail, their parents do?

(Plus, when does the kid become "responsible" for his own learning?)

3) Anti-education parents. I get the same type stuff. I send home progress reports, I call home, I send home papers, yet a kid still fails. At the end of the year, the parent does what - come in and blame me because they did not know!!! Who’s responsibility is it? Then the parent said basically, "I’ll take my kid out of this school." There was probably chearing from the staff.

(The same situation happened in my school, except, after being "withdrawn" a week, the child was back because no other school would take him (I personally don’t blame them). But, his behaviors are just as bad as ever!!)

Now, as I make these comments, I asked myself, "Am I just making excuses?" That, I think, is the important question that teachers and everyone in this process must ask. I think that first, we must be realistic about what we face. The article is pretty accurate in terms of the problems I face, 40% failures, parents who really don’t give support, low entry skills, lack of personal motivation, etc. The question is then, how do you overcome them and who is accountable for overcoming them?

I think the reason teacher’s bristle at the word "accountability" is because they fear that the "kids don’t fail, teachers do" idea will come into play when the teacher is going above and beyond to create success for kids who refuse to cooperate and take it. I don’t have a solution in mind (or, I would be rich, huh?). But, if nothing else touches you from my comments, keep that in mind. I think most teacher’s want to do an excellent job. They want to improve performance. But, they are daily busting their bottoms and feel they get no where. Then, to have someone tell them they are not doing a good job just deflates them and makes them want to throw in the towel. I think more than anything, teachers want people to know just how hard and frustrating our jobs really are. I don’t know if "times have changed", or it is because I was raised in a "rich, white system", or because I have "redaction thinking", but I am convinced that the teachers I had in school had no where near the work load that I now have.... and they were respected for being a teacher while I am always talked down to like some how I am not doing my job and am stupid. (We won’t even go into my workweek, my GPAs, nor my test scores to disprove all that stuff.)

Well, it is almost 3 am. I best get some sleep. I have to grade some papers when I get to school at 6, administer TCAP at 8, then teach 107 little buggers where places like Saudi Arabia and the Sahara are tomorrow and why they might have just a bit of relevance in their lives.

Seriously, thanks for listening. I hope you can sense the frustration teachers feel daily.

#3 (edited to preserve the author’s anonymity)

I strongly believe that ANY approach that has high expectations will in of itself cause children to achieve at higher levels. However I am not sure how closely Lakewood follows her principals. A number of years ago Lakewood wanted to use Saxon Math books (something else I strongly believe in)and was told this was not allowed because Saxon was not on the approved textbook list. So much for DI.

#4

Dave,

I have waited to see what kind of responses you would receive on Marva Collins. As you know, Lakeview Elementary has several Carpe Diem classes which have operated for many years. Parents and teachers have chosen to be involved.

I would suggest that Mary Craighead’s approach is but one way to get to the at-risk child. Before advocating for any one approach, I would hope several would be evaluated on the longitudinal academic success.

I would encourage you to take time to visit several of the Starfish sites this summer. The best time to see the academics in action will be between 8:30 and 1:30. Teachers have chosen to eat lunch with the children as they, the teachers, believe this is appropriate in developing the teacher/learner relationship.

For the question one of the respondents has about too little time on science and social studies, I would suggest that if a child does not have the basics, i.e., pre-reading and writing; math; mastery level reading and writing skills, then science and social studies will not be accessed easily or well by the non reader.

I have read Marva Collins Way and it is most interesting. Several of the Lakeview teachers have gone to Chicago to learn first had about her school and her way. I would suggest that Marva’s way is not for all children nor their families. I like the idea of an approach within a school where teachers, parents, and children may choose the approach but not be forced into it because of where they happen to live.

This idea is much like the Enhanced Option Schools where families may choose but not to required to attend.

#5

I read all the way through with much interest-wish all the "speakers" were around a table-but this is almost as good! Couple of things-One-I have visited Gertrude Williams’ Calvert School in Baltimore and must say that the high expectations she and her teachers held brought those children to high achievement-she and that innercity school are legendary in Baltimore and we would do well to have a counterpart to that (or to a Marva Collins school) here in Nashville.

Question: Why is it that so many educators (at every level from classroom to board room) seem to be so afraid something that is different from what has always been done might actually work????? Or that MANY things different from what has always been done might work better?????? Why do all efforts to do something differently ultimately get so regulated or watered down or under-resourced that nothing every actually changes and such attempts are doomed to failure from the start?????

Second point, in response to one person’s query about who would approve such a school-with good charter legislation process for establishing, schools like the MC and Calvert schools-and others-would be established. An effective process would allow for such schools to approved by the local board of ed and would also allow for alternative approval routes-just in case a local board might actually lack the vision and courage to take that kind of action. [Note: current proposed charter bills appear to have been written by educators as described in paragraph above.]

#6

Dave,

First of all I’d like to say please don’t take my lack of response to your first posting as lack of interest. I appreciate your posting of the Milwaukee Article.

Today’s correspondence is in response to the response of that posting. I’m shocked by other’s fear of difference regardless of content. I agree the Milwaukee article focused much on lifting the underprivileged, but this I’m sure was a condition of the school’s location and environment.

It would be interesting to have our local media cover the Carpe Diem program that exists today in Nashville at Lakeview Elementary where the range of social economics is at a much different level.

I am the mother of a Carpe Diem student. I have high standards and am guilty of being a high achiever; a corporate vice-president of a national publisher by age 30. I believe I have instilled these ideals in my children and have provided a sound economic environment for them. Yet it is my 8 year-old that can take control of a stressful, discouraging or out-of-control situation, and quote me an appropriate proverb or phrase. That, I’m afraid, did not come from me.

Initially I worried somewhat about the concepts of the program: the use of food, or should I say delay of food, as a motivator. The reality is, the morals, disciplines and values are instilled quickly, CONSISTENTLY, and effectively and it is a small issue. The children have daily contact with older and younger children and with other teachers who display the same consistent teaching methods. My son is both mentor to and is mentored by other Carpe Diem students. There is no hostility among the age groups; only support and understanding. Academically, he achieves all that is required by Metro and much more. He loves to learn for the sake of learning and his love of learning is truly from motivation, not manipulation.

Please post these truths, so others without the experience can see there is real value and promise in the Marva Collins methods. Thank you for providing this venue.

#7

Dave,

Thanks for that string on MC and DAP.

It appears that your correspondent has adopted the educationalist line that form, process, and diversity are more important than academic results. I did not see in her comments any reference to the value of actual real-world academic results. She appeared to be more concerned with environmental issues than the results of that environment.

One thing I have learned in all my educational reading is that there seem to be two distinctly different views of the world. One is based on the way the world is, the way things really work, the way human nature really works, while the other is based on the way we wish it all worked.

It would be wonderful if whole language and DAP really worked, but the facts as far as I can tell is that they don’t.

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#8

Thanks for always keeping me posted. I enjoyed reading your response

and believe that the common thread is not curriculum, but good teaching.

As a special education teacher, I thankfully was never trained to teach

curriculum. I was trained to teach learners, learners who learned in

many different ways. That training I have found invaluable in all areas

of my life, both personally and professionally. As a parent, I have

seen my children exposed to many different curriculums that each

provided opportunities for learning. However, the single-most important

ingredient in that learning opportunity was the teacher. If my child

has a good teacher that knows how to teach my child, great synergy

happens and results are undeniable. I agree with the individual that

stated that concensus of purpose creates effective schools. We need

that more than a particular curriculum. If a curriculum is needed to

build such, than go at it. But first identify individuals who

understand the fundamentals of leaderships and make them principals.

Empower them to recruit staff and make decisions that will get results,

and hold them accountable for those results.



As you can see, I am growing quite tired of the lack of leadership that

exists in this school system and am awaiting the new plan in hopes that

it will allow us an opportunity for great change. It won't matter what

we teach if we continue to treat our schools like an assembly line with

union members forcing our destiny.

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Well that’s it. I enjoyed reading the comments. Hope you did.